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	<title>Comments on: Where is Deserters&#8217; Den located?</title>
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	<link>http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/where-is-deserters-den-located/</link>
	<description>histories of unconventional southerners</description>
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		<title>By: renegadesouth</title>
		<link>http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/where-is-deserters-den-located/#comment-2999</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[renegadesouth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2011 03:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/?p=2460#comment-2999</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you, Dan, for such a complete and well-informed description of the Den&#039;s likely location!

Vikki]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Dan, for such a complete and well-informed description of the Den&#8217;s likely location!</p>
<p>Vikki</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Troyka</title>
		<link>http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/where-is-deserters-den-located/#comment-2998</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan Troyka]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2011 03:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/?p=2460#comment-2998</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for posting the WPA essay.  I grew up in Laurel and was told as a kid that Devil&#039;s Den was off a dirt road in Gitano, but it seems that most sources locate it somewhere south of the current Hwy 84 bridge and describe it either as an oxbow lake or (more fancifully) as a cave.  

A 1930 map of the area - available at:

http://alabamamaps.ua.edu/historicalmaps/us_states/mississippi/index3.html 

appears to show the Hwy 84 bridge in its current location.  I understand Ms. Huff is saying there was a lake 1/2 mile east of that bridge on the south side of the highway.  There&#039;s no lake currently in that location, and I wonder if perhaps the lake in question was 1/2 mile east of Welch Landing and the now-gone Pitts Bridge which are discussed in your post from February 28, 2009, and in the excellent comments.  There is an oxbow lake identified by google maps as &quot;Horseshoe Lake&quot; in that location (coordinates 31.663876,-89.375546), and it fits the description given by Judge Pickering in his book &quot;A Price Too High,&quot; where he states (p. 21):  &quot;Newt Knight&#039;s band had a hideout between old oxbow-cypress lakes in the swamps of the Leaf River that borders my farm.  People still call that area &#039;Deserters Den.&#039;&quot;

Ethel Knight, who lived on Hwy 84, placed Deserters Den on the west side of the Leaf just downstream from Welch Landing.  She described a small stream flowing into the Leaf cutting a ravine in a high bluff, and up the stream a short distance at its source is a cave that could accommodate a hundred men.  

This description is similar to the description T. J. Knight gave of a hideout used by a different deserter band in western Jones County, which he located at &quot;two miles above Myrick&quot; at a big bluff on Mill Creek.  That bluff, according to T. J. Knight, had a &quot;big hole ... large enough to accommodate seventy-five or a hundred men&quot; (Life and Activities of Captain Newt Knight, p. 70).  He claims they had &quot;a place fixed up in there to cook and eat and sleep.&quot;  It&#039;s possible Ethel and T. J. were describing the same hideout but that one or both were confused as to location.

The area of Jones County described by T. J. Knight, just east of Masonite Lake, is fairly flat and it&#039;s hard to imagine a bluff of any size.  The area described by Ethel Knight across the Leaf River from Cracker&#039;s Neck is hilly by Jones County standards, although there are no recognized caves in the county and it seems unlikely that a formation of that size would go unnoticed.  Still, the descriptions by both authors are specific enough that someone not afraid to wade through a creek or swamp could check the areas out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for posting the WPA essay.  I grew up in Laurel and was told as a kid that Devil&#8217;s Den was off a dirt road in Gitano, but it seems that most sources locate it somewhere south of the current Hwy 84 bridge and describe it either as an oxbow lake or (more fancifully) as a cave.  </p>
<p>A 1930 map of the area &#8211; available at:</p>
<p><a href="http://alabamamaps.ua.edu/historicalmaps/us_states/mississippi/index3.html" rel="nofollow">http://alabamamaps.ua.edu/historicalmaps/us_states/mississippi/index3.html</a> </p>
<p>appears to show the Hwy 84 bridge in its current location.  I understand Ms. Huff is saying there was a lake 1/2 mile east of that bridge on the south side of the highway.  There&#8217;s no lake currently in that location, and I wonder if perhaps the lake in question was 1/2 mile east of Welch Landing and the now-gone Pitts Bridge which are discussed in your post from February 28, 2009, and in the excellent comments.  There is an oxbow lake identified by google maps as &#8220;Horseshoe Lake&#8221; in that location (coordinates 31.663876,-89.375546), and it fits the description given by Judge Pickering in his book &#8220;A Price Too High,&#8221; where he states (p. 21):  &#8220;Newt Knight&#8217;s band had a hideout between old oxbow-cypress lakes in the swamps of the Leaf River that borders my farm.  People still call that area &#8216;Deserters Den.&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p>Ethel Knight, who lived on Hwy 84, placed Deserters Den on the west side of the Leaf just downstream from Welch Landing.  She described a small stream flowing into the Leaf cutting a ravine in a high bluff, and up the stream a short distance at its source is a cave that could accommodate a hundred men.  </p>
<p>This description is similar to the description T. J. Knight gave of a hideout used by a different deserter band in western Jones County, which he located at &#8220;two miles above Myrick&#8221; at a big bluff on Mill Creek.  That bluff, according to T. J. Knight, had a &#8220;big hole &#8230; large enough to accommodate seventy-five or a hundred men&#8221; (Life and Activities of Captain Newt Knight, p. 70).  He claims they had &#8220;a place fixed up in there to cook and eat and sleep.&#8221;  It&#8217;s possible Ethel and T. J. were describing the same hideout but that one or both were confused as to location.</p>
<p>The area of Jones County described by T. J. Knight, just east of Masonite Lake, is fairly flat and it&#8217;s hard to imagine a bluff of any size.  The area described by Ethel Knight across the Leaf River from Cracker&#8217;s Neck is hilly by Jones County standards, although there are no recognized caves in the county and it seems unlikely that a formation of that size would go unnoticed.  Still, the descriptions by both authors are specific enough that someone not afraid to wade through a creek or swamp could check the areas out.</p>
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		<title>By: renegadesouth</title>
		<link>http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/where-is-deserters-den-located/#comment-2932</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[renegadesouth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/?p=2460#comment-2932</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Joyce,

Isn&#039;t it wonderful to know your ancestors participated in such a rich and important slice of Civil War history? I remember my amazement in learning that my Bynum ancestors participated on both sides of this inner civil war. Having been raised outside of Mississippi, I did not hear of the Free State of Jones until I saw a reference to it in a Civil War history book&#039;s footnote.

Vikki]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Joyce,</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t it wonderful to know your ancestors participated in such a rich and important slice of Civil War history? I remember my amazement in learning that my Bynum ancestors participated on both sides of this inner civil war. Having been raised outside of Mississippi, I did not hear of the Free State of Jones until I saw a reference to it in a Civil War history book&#8217;s footnote.</p>
<p>Vikki</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: renegadesouth</title>
		<link>http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/where-is-deserters-den-located/#comment-2931</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[renegadesouth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/?p=2460#comment-2931</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rich, I&#039;m glad to know this essay is helpful to you. I hope some of our readers who live in the Jones County area can answer your question about Reddoch&#039;s Ferry. (I do have a photo of the Reddoch&#039;s Ferry hwy sign that I took while my husband and I were traveling on Hwy 84 back in 1992)

I&#039;m sure you and your son will have a great time exploring the area--good luck!

Vikki]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich, I&#8217;m glad to know this essay is helpful to you. I hope some of our readers who live in the Jones County area can answer your question about Reddoch&#8217;s Ferry. (I do have a photo of the Reddoch&#8217;s Ferry hwy sign that I took while my husband and I were traveling on Hwy 84 back in 1992)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure you and your son will have a great time exploring the area&#8211;good luck!</p>
<p>Vikki</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: renegadesouth</title>
		<link>http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/where-is-deserters-den-located/#comment-2930</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[renegadesouth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/?p=2460#comment-2930</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Vikky, for once again taking the time to comment! 

You are so right about what a wonderful resource the WPA interviews and essays (most of which were never published) are for anyone who studies history. They are filled with stories--what today we call &quot;oral history,&quot; since many were based on interviews with local folks. 

Of course, they must be used with great care, as they are filled with many inaccurate &quot;facts,&quot; and conflicting opinions about the same events (the Free State of Jones is an excellent example of both). But they are no less a resource for historians--it&#039;s important to know what people believed, even when they got the facts wrong! 

In writing the Free State of Jones, the unpublished WPA county histories (held at the state archives in Jackson) helped me to understand divergent popular views about the Knight Company, and also which families were likely to come down on which side of the Newt Knight-as-hero versus Newt Knight-as-outlaw debate.

Vikki]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Vikky, for once again taking the time to comment! </p>
<p>You are so right about what a wonderful resource the WPA interviews and essays (most of which were never published) are for anyone who studies history. They are filled with stories&#8211;what today we call &#8220;oral history,&#8221; since many were based on interviews with local folks. </p>
<p>Of course, they must be used with great care, as they are filled with many inaccurate &#8220;facts,&#8221; and conflicting opinions about the same events (the Free State of Jones is an excellent example of both). But they are no less a resource for historians&#8211;it&#8217;s important to know what people believed, even when they got the facts wrong! </p>
<p>In writing the Free State of Jones, the unpublished WPA county histories (held at the state archives in Jackson) helped me to understand divergent popular views about the Knight Company, and also which families were likely to come down on which side of the Newt Knight-as-hero versus Newt Knight-as-outlaw debate.</p>
<p>Vikki</p>
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		<title>By: joyce corley falkenstein</title>
		<link>http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/where-is-deserters-den-located/#comment-2929</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[joyce corley falkenstein]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Mar 2011 16:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/?p=2460#comment-2929</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you so much Vicki, for your follow-up on this part of Miss. history.  My ancestors were in Newt&#039;s army, and Newt&#039;s brother married Patsy Corley.  My maiden name is Corley. my Dad was raised on the Corley farm mentioned in your book, The Free State of Jones.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you so much Vicki, for your follow-up on this part of Miss. history.  My ancestors were in Newt&#8217;s army, and Newt&#8217;s brother married Patsy Corley.  My maiden name is Corley. my Dad was raised on the Corley farm mentioned in your book, The Free State of Jones.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Welch</title>
		<link>http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/where-is-deserters-den-located/#comment-2928</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rich Welch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Mar 2011 16:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/?p=2460#comment-2928</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A timely post from my perspective as I&#039;ll be travelling to Jones/Covington in a couple of weeks to do some exploring with my father (who was born in Laurel) and my son. I agree with Mrs. Anders that Mrs. Huff&#039;s essay evokes haunting images of the conflict that took place in the area.

Does anyone know if Reddoch&#039;s Ferry was located at the the same point on the Leaf that Highway 84 crosses now? I have seen some information that suggests that as the location, but nothing I would hold as definitive. Based on the information in Ruby Huff&#039;s essay, I would guess that if not there, Reddoch&#039;s Ferry was not too far south of there. 

On the 1992 Hot Coffee Quad map there are a couple of features that look as if they fit the bill for Deserter&#039;s Den, as described by Mrs. Huff. Anyone know of other sources that discuss the location?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A timely post from my perspective as I&#8217;ll be travelling to Jones/Covington in a couple of weeks to do some exploring with my father (who was born in Laurel) and my son. I agree with Mrs. Anders that Mrs. Huff&#8217;s essay evokes haunting images of the conflict that took place in the area.</p>
<p>Does anyone know if Reddoch&#8217;s Ferry was located at the the same point on the Leaf that Highway 84 crosses now? I have seen some information that suggests that as the location, but nothing I would hold as definitive. Based on the information in Ruby Huff&#8217;s essay, I would guess that if not there, Reddoch&#8217;s Ferry was not too far south of there. </p>
<p>On the 1992 Hot Coffee Quad map there are a couple of features that look as if they fit the bill for Deserter&#8217;s Den, as described by Mrs. Huff. Anyone know of other sources that discuss the location?</p>
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		<title>By: Vikky Anders</title>
		<link>http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/where-is-deserters-den-located/#comment-2925</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vikky Anders]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 22:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/?p=2460#comment-2925</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Vikki,

Indeed, Ed Payne has been a terrific contributor to your  &#039;Renegade South&#039; blog.  Thank you, Ed Payne of the mighty pen!   

This essay written by WPA writer and local resident, Ruby Huff is, indeed, exceptional.  (Bless her heart!) Indeed to read of  events that led to the butchering  and slaughtering of  innocent Jones Co residents during this epochal period is  a visceral experience.  Today one cannot help but wince while reading Ms. Huff&#039;s essay.  So powerful!  So very, very sad!  

 I  value reading all of the comments/essays  from your contributors,  painful though many of them might be.  I remain keenly aware of how  vital it is  to remember these historic events.  I shall be forever grateful to the WPA writers and to those who shared their personal stories  for the benefit of future generations.   I owe a debt of thanks to many people...Ed Payne is one of them.  

Vikki, thanks so much for making all of this possible.  It&#039;s no wonder that your speaking engagements continue to pile up.  Word gets around.....

My very best, 

 Vikky (Wilburn) Anders   in San Diego]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Vikki,</p>
<p>Indeed, Ed Payne has been a terrific contributor to your  &#8216;Renegade South&#8217; blog.  Thank you, Ed Payne of the mighty pen!   </p>
<p>This essay written by WPA writer and local resident, Ruby Huff is, indeed, exceptional.  (Bless her heart!) Indeed to read of  events that led to the butchering  and slaughtering of  innocent Jones Co residents during this epochal period is  a visceral experience.  Today one cannot help but wince while reading Ms. Huff&#8217;s essay.  So powerful!  So very, very sad!  </p>
<p> I  value reading all of the comments/essays  from your contributors,  painful though many of them might be.  I remain keenly aware of how  vital it is  to remember these historic events.  I shall be forever grateful to the WPA writers and to those who shared their personal stories  for the benefit of future generations.   I owe a debt of thanks to many people&#8230;Ed Payne is one of them.  </p>
<p>Vikki, thanks so much for making all of this possible.  It&#8217;s no wonder that your speaking engagements continue to pile up.  Word gets around&#8230;..</p>
<p>My very best, </p>
<p> Vikky (Wilburn) Anders   in San Diego</p>
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